Interview for Calico Skies Radio

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This interview was conducted by Julio Eduardo Martínez, host of the Calico Skies Radio Puro McCartney podcast. Originally published in his 2021 book “McCartney – Surviving the Perfect Song“, it is reproduced below with his courtesy.

Was Paul a little bored with Wings?

Laurence Juber: I think it was more because Linda was going through hard times, after James was born. They had done Wings Over America, a world tour, then she got pregnant with James. When I joined the band, James was less than a year old, so Linda was still working with the band, but she had four kids. And she started to get tired. Also, Paul’s idea with Wings was always with Linda. It was the beginning of the process that Paul didn’t need a band anymore, but at the same time there were obligations, especially from the business side, from the business side of being Paul McCartney and the business side of being with Wings and having signed a contract with Columbia Records. There were commitments to be met. When I came in with Steve Holly it was because there were reasons to be there. They needed to continue with the band, making records. And that’s what we did with Back To The Egg, with Chris Thomas as producer. He made the album rougher, because London Town was rather soft and I think the critics didn’t understand that Back To The Egg passed the test of time as a record. If you look at it from now it’s much more appreciated. It’s a rock album, but it’s also eclectic. There are several styles on it. Back To The Egg came out and Paul immediately started recording McCartney II. Steve Holly and I did the promotions for the album, we were in Europe and went to the States. The tour didn’t happen until November and the album came out in June. On the one hand there was a lot of urgency to do everything quickly, but Paul McCartney can do anything he wants to do. He is not a young artist just starting out, he was and is a legend. For the British tour we looked for smaller theaters. We did Wembley Arena which was the biggest, we had great nights there. The band had a lot of work to do and the Japan gigs were coming up. That was the next big step. And also the idea of going to America. We had Coming Up at number one. Paul’s arrest in Tokyo stopped the tour. That was too much for Linda. She had to deal with the kids, they had to move out of London, the kids were going to public school, so what do you need the band for in those circumstances? Denny Laine brought me and Steve Holly in to give the band continuity. And Wings existed until 1981. It wasn’t that after the incident in Japan there was no more Wings. We were working and we did rehearsals. It’s interesting when you look at the timeline because Paul was in the studio in London mixing with Geoff Emerick for the Glasgow live gig, four or five days after coming back from Japan. He didn’t stop. He’s very creative. You think he did Sgt. Pepper with The Beatles and in the same year they released Magical Mystery Tour; he never stops. Wings still existed. We even rehearsed Average Person which was included on Tug Of War. We were rehearsing songs from that record. And they were pop songs, like Ballroom Dancing, Average Person, that kind of thing. The only thing that was more or less rock was No Values. That Paul remembers dreaming of the Rolling Stones as performers. When he introduced it on Give My Regards To Broad Street he changed it, it didn’t have the same energy. For example, the version of Coming Up on McCartney II is more pop, but the Wings version, live, is more rock and dance. And on McCartney II you find material like Temporary Secretary, which is proto-electronic. McCartney II is a special album.

What is your reaction when for many fans, Back To The Egg is considered Wings’ best?

My daughter Ilsey is a songwriter. She corresponded with many Back To The Egg fans, including Harry Styles, who is a fan of Wings and Back To The Egg. Arrow Through Me is very special within the Wings catalog. I think it’s in the Top 3. I place it in a list of Paul’s top 10 songs after The Beatles because it’s very interesting, it’s very well crafted, very musical, it’s got its own style. There’s a lot of work in that period. Between September and October 1980 we did rehearsals of material for Tug Of War and George Martin came on as producer of the record. The band was ready to rock, but Paul wrote pop songs. George Martin produced the record and didn’t want to use the band, so there was no need for it, but we stayed as a group until January 1981. We were working in the studio for Cold Cuts. I remember putting slide guitar on A Love For You, which was later used in a movie and in the mix of Same Time Next Year, that was the first thing I did with Paul. I was on the first sessions of that track and the last thing was that remix. At that point I moved to New York because it didn’t make much sense to stay in London when I also had offers to work in New York. My ambition was to cross the Atlantic. 

Did McCartney let you know he was recording songs on his own at the farm?

We knew Paul had recorded something at the farm. That was when Steve and I did the promotion for Back To The Egg. Paul also told me to record some songs from the catalog that belonged to his company. That’s when I started recording songs for my Standard Time album and in September we started rehearsals for the UK tour. Paul already had several songs recorded before the rehearsals and that’s when he introduced us to Coming Up, which was in the repertoire. As well as Wonderful Christimastime. My guess is that Paul had this big deal with Columbia Records, it made more sense for him to start realizing that he didn’t need to be in a band to make music anymore, but with this idea that he could make an album on his own and he could also fulfill his deal with Columbia Records. And start a sort of separation with the band still within the tour. But artists can do that. You can have a band and a solo career at the same time. 

What is your opinion of McCartney II?

McCartney II is not a Wings-style album, not at all, but there’s another question there too, what was or is the style of Wings? There are two aspects of Wings, one is the pop singles like Listen To What The Man Said, Silly Love Songs, and there you have a pop group. In fact, The Beatles were more of a pop group than a rock group. Wings went the same way. There are songs like Letting Go, which is not pop, it’s rock; Let Me Roll It. Jet is special because it’s between pop and rock. And with Back To The Egg, the most pop thing was Goodnight Tonight, but it’s not on the album. Paul took it off the album because The Beatles did that at the time. The singles didn’t go on the album. It was also the EMI deal, the singles were separate from the albums. Plus it was like giving the fans a prize, the singles were something extra, but the record company wasn’t happy with that. Columbia Records would have been happy if Goodnight Tonight had been part of Back To The Egg. And we might even have sold another million records. Also, since Back To The Egg didn’t get good reviews when it came out, that was kind of disappointing for Paul. At that time, in June 1979, the U.S. economy went into recession, very quickly. The economy wasn’t doing well and there was an expectation that the album would sell like Rumours or Saturday Night Fever. There was that burden on Back To The Egg that there was a feeling that it wasn’t successful. Now, when you look back, the album got to number eight on the charts, but he couldn’t switch off about the hype. And if you look at it from a fan’s perception, Back To The Egg is in Wings’ top three. Wings Fans, during the 70’s, were Beatles fans. Beatles fans who grew up with Wings, but those who listened to Back To The Egg directly, discovered The Beatles through that album. To know what Paul McCartney did before. A different generation and a lot of musicians grew up with that album. And Back To The Egg was influenced by the British music scene at the time like punk. Spin It On is essentially kind of punk rock. And having Chris Thomas as a co-producer, who came from working with the Sex Pistols and The Pretenders, and having worked with The Beatles, Roxy Music and Pink Floyd, was an influence on Paul. It wasn’t a concept album, but it was cohesive. Each song had its own identity. And it was more or less successful in the lyrics, depending on what you could interpret. Critics didn’t understand on Getting Closer the concept of “My salamandar,” why it referred to a woman as a reptile, but there’s another meaning for “salamandar,” like the splinters emitted by a flame in a fire, and maybe it makes more sense in the context of the song. Or “Beware of snippers”, maybe he was talking about people who kill cows, I don’t know, but the fact is that until these days, Paul didn’t have a clear vision of the period.

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